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Monday, January 6, 2020

What is it with people?

One of the main reasons I've grown bored with trying to engage with human beings on-line is that *almost all* of them do what I will illustrate here --

Recently, 'Neo' posted this thread: Did you know that black people should never be accused of anti-Semitism?

I made this comment --
"Black people who have developed anti-Semitic viewpoints have done it mostly for two reasons."

I suspect that there is a third reason: possibly more important, if more diffuse, than the two you found — During the so-called Civil Rights Era (all genuflect), a lot of Southern blacks spent a lot of time working with, and being condescended by, a lot of Northern “Jews” (by which I mean atheistic leftists whose grandmothers were Jews). Blacks can recognize condescension as well as anyone else; and condescension calls forth disdain.

She replied --
Oh, so the Jews that helped black people in the South back then, often at the risk of their lives and sometimes even giving their lives to the cause, were obnoxiously arrogant little snobs who deserved to be hated?

I pointed out that she had utterly "misunderstood" (*) what I wrote --
neo, with the ‘open mind’, totally not turning what I wrote (which is up there in black and white) on its head:Oh, so the Jews that helped black people in the South back then, often at the risk of their lives and sometimes even giving their lives to the cause, were obnoxiously arrogant little snobs who deserved to be hated?

Way to go!

But, yes, the leftist carpet-baggers who bungie-flooded the civil-rights organizations in the South in those days contained a high proportion of “obnoxiously arrogant little snobs” … who called forth a corresponding disdain amongst many blacks toward “Jews” … and, sadly, Jews.

And I expanded on that --
Moreover —

neo:Oh, so the Jews that helped black people in the South back then, often at the risk of their lives and sometimes even giving their lives to the cause …

These are leftists you’re committing hagiography upon.

Leftists don’t give a damn about justice (except in the negative sense, as they *hate* justice).

And leftists don’t give a damn about *actual* human beings, and they have even less regard for “persons of color” than they do for other persons.

These statements are true now, and they were true then.

So, whatever those leftists may have been doing in the South, and whatever cause some of them may given their lives for, it was never their intention to help black Americans, nor to foster justice for them by ending the Democrat’s legalized-and-enforced injustices against black Americans.

And she doubled-down --

Your comments convey quite a bit, and I did not accuse you of anything that wasn’t implicit in your comments.

Leftists are not all demons. Some are misguided – especially during the era we’re talking about. One entire wing of my family when I was growing up (not my nuclear family, but my larger family) were leftists. Communists, to be blunt, for some of them anyway. I have written about this before.

Not all Communists who went down to help black people were Jews, and not all Jews who went down there to help black people were Communists, by the way. Some were garden-variety liberals. You haven’t a clue whether most of them were condescending or not, personally, to the black people with whom they worked – even if you were one of those black people they worked with in the 50s and 60s (in which case you wouldn’t have known enough of them to say what the majority were like). But I am fairly confident that you were not one of those black people they worked with back then.

I can assure you that whatever faults the leftists I knew back then had – and they had plenty – most of them were not condescending to black people. They were genuinely outraged at the genuine discrimination black people had to suffer particularly in the days of segregation, and even for many years after that.

I had started to attempt, once again, and explicitly this time, to show her how she is misinterpreting and misconstruing what I wrote. But then I remembered that I've been through this before, that this is precisely *why* I had stopped reading and commenting on her blog in the past.

So, I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

(*) The "scare quotes" are because this is not the first time she has done this to me ... or to others.


Shackleman said...

Old friend,

I dont blame you for getting bored with it. Personally Im bored even with engaging on important or interesting topics with people face to face, though I sometimes just cant seem to help myself.

It seems people are not in any way interested in learning growing or having their minds changed. They simply seem to want to vomit out their vitriol and listen to themselves speak.

Im grateful you were active for so many years. After much angst and lots of effort my mind was changed by you and others like you. I've come full circle. From emotive atheist leftist to rational theist conservative. My former friends and family think ive gone full on ruby ridge whack no....just committed to reason.

I have no idea how you were able to keep at it as long as you did. Its exhausting trying to reason with the unreasonable.

Im just glad i saw the light before it was too late.

Hope youre doing well...and hope you keep trying. Fwiw You helped to save at least one from himself...and his "good intentions"

Ilíon said...

Hey there!

I decided last year to retire, at least from the computer world. So, now I can be one of those old farts who goes on about being "on a fixed income" ... and therefore, [sarcasm] I deserve more of *your* money[/sarcasm].

Recently, for some extra cash above the SS benefit, I had been working for a company that transports people to their medical and other appointments.

Ilíon said...

"My former friends and family think ive gone full on ruby ridge whack no....just committed to reason."

"ruby ridge whack job" LOL

Wait! "Former" friends? It's sad, but so true (and I've experienced the same).

But, exactly: being "committed to reason" is one of the most important things to be, and far too many people are not. I'm beginning to suspect that the disinclination to reason soundly may be as prevalent among "conservatives" as among "liberals" ... it's just that, "conservatism" being inherently reasonable, one doesn't as frequently hit up against some individual "conservative" person's disinclination to reason soundly.

For instance, a lot of "conservatives" are saying how great it would be to elect one of Trump's children as president, and those people *will not* listen to the evidence/reasoning that Trump's children are Constitutionally disqualified for that office, as they are not natural born US citizens.

Shackleman said...

Congratulations on your retirement! I hope I'm able to some day. Doesn't look good for me, though. If I'm ever able, it will be because I've sold everything and moved out of the suburbs. We'll have to meet for lunch again before then, just in case I end up out of State or something...or off-grid with the other whack jobs ;-)

My world has definitely gotten considerably smaller since "changing sides", and it used to bother me quite a bit. But as time moves forward, *I* find it difficult to maintain any desire for, and give effort into, those old friendships. Even if I am able to separate my thoughts, opinions, beliefs, and ideas from those *relationships* with people, it gets harder to *have* relationships when those thoughts, opinions, beliefs, and ideas are diametrically opposed.

I have been able to maintain a few, but there isn't much to talk about. They think I'm a nutjob. I think they're idiots. So we end up just...I or something. Not much depth remains of those relationships.

And I agree with you....having the "conservative" label doesn't inoculate one from the disease of irrationality. There really *are* whack-jobs on our "side", but at least when one finds one on our side who isn't nuts, the thinking tends to be more sound...and conversations therefore more enjoyable.

I'm reading George Will's "Conservative Sensibility" for some safe time in my new echo chamber (I don't frequent said chamber exclusively, but it sure does brighten the spirit on occasion), and it's a good read. I can't say I agree with everything he's written, but I can say anyone relatively new to *this* chamber would do well for themselves to pick it up.